Thinking Outside The Box With Special Guest Nicole Ringgold

In today’s episode I will be discussing thinking outside the box when it comes to jewelry making with special guest Nicole Ringgold.

Nicole is a jeweler who creates amazing botanical and nature inspired jewelry. She has been a full time jeweler for over 8 years. She also teaches jewelry making workshops around the world and at her home studio in Winthrop, Washington. She is also an author and her fantastic book “The New Silversmith, Techniques For Creating Nature- Inspired Jewelry” is now available!

PURCHASE NICOLE’S BOOK: https://amzn.to/4bDBQDj

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Link to Raven Bubble Wand: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8sgXiuPbvz/

Follow Nicole on Instagram: @ringgoldnicole

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Transcript

Corkie Bolton: 0:01

Welcome to Jewelry Making Tips with Metalsmith Society the ultimate podcast for anyone passionate about the art of jewelry making. I'm your host, Corkie Bolton. Metalsmith Society is a community on Instagram that has over 240,000 individuals, from professional jewelers to small business artisans, hobbyists, students and even those curious looky-loos eager to learn about jewelry making. Together, we share tips, kindness and even those curious looky-loos eager to learn about jewelry making. Together, we share tips, kindness and support. In this podcast, I will discuss tips from the Instagram page, provide deeper insights, address questions and share bonus tips that often surface in the comments section.

Corkie Bolton: 0:38

So, whether you've been making jewelry for a while or you're just starting your jewelry making journey, this podcast is your go-to resource for all the jewelry making tips. So grab your tools, dust off your workbench and join me. In today's episode, I will be discussing how to break the rules when it comes to jewelry making with my special guest, Nicole Ringgold. Nicole is a jeweler who creates amazing botanical and nature-inspired jewelry. She has been a full-time jeweler for over eight years. She also teaches jewelry making workshops around the world and at her home studio in Winthrop, Washington. She's also an author, and her fantastic book, the New Silversmith Techniques for Creating Nature-Inspired jewelry is now available, Nicole welcome.

Nicole Ringgold: 1:27

Thank you so much, I'm so happy to be here.

Corkie Bolton: 1:30

I so appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. I've been following your work for years and you've been a member of our community as well, sharing tips with us, so thank you.

Nicole Ringgold: 1:41

Thank you Seriously. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your helping me put the word out about books and your support of the artist community.

Corkie Bolton: 1:57

It is my pleasure If listeners could see you, they would notice that you are wearing a T-shirt jam. So, Nicole, I read in your book that as a young student, you struggled to learn, but you had a special education teacher that really encouraged you. I would love to hear more about your experience, and that definitely resonates with me too, so could you share a little bit about that with us?

Nicole Ringgold: 2:20

Yeah, well, it kind of started because my brother was brilliant and he was a straight A student he actually graduated from high school two years early and because he was so smart, what happened was that my parents really drowned in trying to support him socially, in the social aspect of his life, because that was tough for him and he was an older brother, so they kind of lost track of me in the school system. I was a social butterfly as a child and because of that, because I just managed to skirt through the system, it wasn't until I was in fourth grade that my teachers finally sat my parents down and said your daughter doesn't know how to read, and that shocked them. And that was just one example of nothing in mainstream education for me. I never excelled, ever.

Nicole Ringgold: 3:22

And it wasn't until I did sit down with a special education teacher that she gave me standardized tests, but that were visual and artistic, and through that she also encouraged me to do creative writing and drawing. And at that time I played musical instrument and she brought me home to her husband who encouraged me to play music with him, and my relationship with her developed so beautifully and it was in that time that she helped me and my family, my parents, understand that art is a form of intelligence, intelligence, and that if I were to be in a setting where I could learn through different means than just your standard education, that I might actually excel. And she was right.

Corkie Bolton: 4:12

That's amazing. And you know my my experience was a little different. But I was struggling more in high school. I was kind of hanging out, you know, if I'm honest, you know experimenting with drugs and getting into some trouble and you know was kind of not heading down the right path.

Corkie Bolton: 4:31

And I feel that the encouragement I got from my high school art teachers at my public high school in New York, you know they were like you're talented, you should apply to RISD, you should apply to Pratt, you should apply to RISD, you should apply to Pratt Like they gave me that confidence and support that I really needed during that time where I think it's very normal to kind of push your parents away but you still need someone to guide you. And so I mean I, anytime I hear that someone is a teacher, I have the utmost respect. Any high school teachers that are out there listening. Your impact is huge. I started, you know I I got my first experience making jewelry in high school at the age of 14. And if I hadn't had that, I probably wouldn't be here today like that.

Corkie Bolton: 5:10

So so that that really resonated and you know I I love that you shared your honesty in your book like that, so thank you for that.

Nicole Ringgold: 5:20

And then, you know, I feel like it's important because, because there are so many people who kind of get stuck in, whether it be in school or in a job or in a journey in life, that doesn't quite fit language, and sometimes it's a massive relief, and so I think it's really important to share that part of the story more than anything, probably so that people realize that, wow, yeah, there are, there is another way of learning and there's another way of working that is outside the norm and it's fine.

Corkie Bolton: 5:56

Yes, Amen to that. I'd love to hear about your early days. I also, you know, read in your book that your first introduction to this type of craft was that you were carving stones that river stones that you'd found and creating knobs for your cabinetry in your home. And then it evolved from to wire wrapping. I love to hear more about that and how you got your start.

Nicole Ringgold: 6:20

Oh boy, I was directing nonprofits for 15 to 20 years and my whole life I wanted to be an artist, but I never could figure out how to get ahead financially and I never really had the space to be able to do that. Because, I think because we got caught up in the rat race of owning a home and of course, then we had other expenditures and then we had a child, and so we didn't have the ability for me to just step back and take a risk like that. And so while I was working in the nonprofit realm, the entire time on the side, I collected river rocks and drilled through those and turned them into our cabinet knobs around the house and I loved the process of working with natural materials. And then, yes, that turned into wire wrapping jewelry and from there I just became hooked on working small scale and I could have a studio that fit in my home that didn't sprawl across the house. So it just worked. And it worked because I could do it outside of my day-to-day career.

Corkie Bolton: 7:52

Absolutely, and you know from reading your story I can tell that, like a lot of us, you've had to overcome a lot. In 2014, you experienced the tragic loss of your home and studio I can't even imagine what that was like but then you spoke of this period of rebuilding and then finding your voice. So there were periods of time where you weren't sure how you were going to get the money for it or gain your tools back. Could you tell us a little bit about that rebuild after such a loss?

Nicole Ringgold: 8:30

little bit about that, that rebuild after such a loss. Yeah, that was probably the most pivotal point in my life. I had built a studio, a silver smithing studio, in my home. I'd purchased my first torch. I finally moved the drill press from the cold shed into the house into my little space about three years, because I bought my first torch in 2011.

Nicole Ringgold: 8:53

I am losing everything to a wildfire. It was through Surf Plus that I got a grant and Rio Grande gave me a $500 gift certificate and put me on a pro account, and so I was able to start back up small scale. And it was also at that time that my gosh, I love him so much. My husband said we need to take this opportunity. We now have nothing. We literally had just the clothes on our back, nothing. Everything was burnt and we just he said, why don't we buy something really small and let's not necessarily reinvest in everything that we had? And we can take that time and you can quit your job working as the director of a nonprofit and you can finally be an artist and we can just make financial a space for you to take that risk.

Nicole Ringgold: 9:48

So I did I quit my job, I found a studio in a greenhouse, or I started up a studio in a greenhouse and then, yeah, promptly went into debt because I couldn't figure out how to separate myself from the masses. There are so many silversmiths, metalsmiths out there. And it was about a year later. After trying to start back up that on a trail run, I shut down all of my social media. I just had to, like, move away from comparing myself to everyone else and I went on a trail run and it was then that I realized, wow, you know, my passion is nature, rocks, natural rocks, plants, bugs. Why not start diving into that realm and see where it will take me? And so it wasn't until about a year after the fire that it started to take off for me.

Corkie Bolton: 10:44

I mean it's amazing to hear that process, because I know that many people listening have felt the same way, where they're not sure how to branch themselves out. And I think that you went to this place of your. You know what your life's passions are. I know that you love, as you said, like trail running and being out in nature, and that that so comes through, and so you decided to create work around those things that you love, and I think that when people follow those their passions like that, it's a really good first step towards finding your voice as an artist.

Nicole Ringgold: 11:17

Absolutely 100% Yep.

Corkie Bolton: 11:21

Are you enjoying the podcast? Do you want to support me and get even more exclusive perks in return? Then the Metalsmith Society Patreon is the place for you. By becoming a patron, you'll join passionate community members who not only love our community but want to see it grow and thrive. Your support allows me to keep creating high quality podcast episodes, run the Metalsmith Society page on Instagram and provide resources on the Mettlesmith Society website, such as finding a local class or checking out my latest book recommendations.

Corkie Bolton: 11:54

But that's not all. As a patron, you unlock a treasure trove of exclusive benefits from monthly giveaways, exclusive promos from sponsors and a community chat area where you can even sell gently used tools. I now even have a free membership where you can come over, create a login and just see what it's all about. So if you're ready to take your support to the next level and gain access to a world of exclusive perks, head over to my Patreon page today. That's patreoncom slash metalsmithsociety. Your support means the world to me and I couldn't do this without you. I would love to hear how you started to quote unquote, break the rules, not do the traditional things when it came to creating your own botanical and nature inspired work.

Nicole Ringgold: 12:45

It actually was all an accident. I had no idea that I was breaking the rules. So, especially like in the beginning, when I first taught myself how to metalsmith, we didn't have. We live way out in the middle of nowhere, way up in the North Cascades in Washington state. It's beautiful here but we don't have a lot of resources, and so I didn't have classes at my ready.

Nicole Ringgold: 13:09

But I was intrigued, and so I remember first getting my torch and in the kit that I purchased was a CD and a book just like a, like a brochure basically, or something that taught me how to turn it on and off, connect it, et cetera. And so from there I had to teach myself through and I set myself challenges. So my first self challenge was 100 chains, and it was while I was making chains and I had no idea that medium and hard solder existed, so I was only using easy solder and that I was so frustrated because the solder kept. All of my solder joints kept rerunning as I was trying to join links together. So it was just in that process that I wondered what would happen if I omitted solder and only fused my chains.

Nicole Ringgold: 14:10

And I did not realize at that time that you're not supposed to really be able to fuse sterling silver. I just tried it and worked through it, and it's not easy, but I taught myself how to do it. And that was the start of working outside the box. And from there I taught myself how to use third hands and a pick and tweezers as heat sinks to prevent solder from flowing. And pretty much for the first three years post-fire so 2014, 15, 16, and into 2017, when I started teaching, I still didn't know that medium and hard solder existed. I mean, talk about silly. And so now, of course, I use medium and hard solder, but I think that because I'd never taken any classes, I just was not aware of those options until I started teaching. And then students asked me why don't you use medium and hard solders in this instance? And I thought, well, good question.

Corkie Bolton: 15:14

That was all by accident. I love that Sometimes, when we're just truly passionate and we're playing with things, we learn way more than when someone sits us down and says, well, this is what you can do and can't do, and I think that's really that's like the beauty of your work and your book and all of this is just that you have been dedicated to just playing, like I love that you made a hundred chains.

Corkie Bolton: 15:37

What an amazing challenge if someone's in a rut like why don't you make a hundred? You know a hundred chains or a hundred rings, like I love that. Was there ever a time that you did attend a workshop and maybe you were hearing things from other teachers that influenced you? Or maybe you thought to yourself oh, that's not the way I'm doing it.

Nicole Ringgold: 15:57

Oh, I've never attended a workshop, I've never gone and taken any kind of instruction.

Corkie Bolton: 16:01

Oh, interesting but yeah, I've never.

Nicole Ringgold: 16:04

But I have had other instructors attend my workshops and they do have a lot of knowledge that I don't have, especially those that have been silversmithing or metalsmithing for 30 plus years. The knowledge that I have is what I it's basically through a lot of F-bombs, a lot of mistakes, and I've learned and learned and learned based on my mistakes. And so when they come and talk about, oh my gosh, you can fuse sterling silver, my first time hearing that I thought you can't. Yep, so it was more just like hearing that. And then, of course, I started to incorporate different kinds of solder, which then blew my work in a totally different direction more sculptural. That's when I became much more sculptural. The botanical challenge I just set myself a challenge to dissect an astounding amount on heat sinks, torch control. Yeah, that and yeah and so since doing that and teaching globally and around the world, I or sorry, nationally and then globally I'm definitely encountering people who do things in different ways and it gives me more tools in my kit.

Corkie Bolton: 17:43

Yes, definitely, as I view myself as somewhat of someone that's helping to educate, but I'm the one that's learned the most, running Metal Smith Society, for sure. I bet I love the quote that you included in your book. I actually like was like oh, when I saw it from bob ross we don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents. I would love if you elaborated on that a little bit more, like maybe share a mistake that you once made and how you turned it around, because that's just so awesome to hear.

Nicole Ringgold: 18:23

Yeah, it's something that I really try to encourage in my workshops, because I think a lot of us in life and this has to go back.

Nicole Ringgold: 18:26

This goes back to the education component of things.

Nicole Ringgold: 18:28

Like if you're told you have to do it in this way, you need to learn math and this is the equation and you need to do it in this way, that doesn't work for a large number of people. And so I say you know, if you make an accident, you're going to learn more by not setting your accident aside and saying darn it, but by taking the accident and trying to either repair it or turn it into something else and think of it as a happy accident, because not only are you learning more, but you're turning that into something that looks intentional and it opens up a whole new world of possibilities. So, for instance, like if you're fabricating a leaf and you accident, accidentally, burn a hole in that leaf and you've put three or four hours into that leaf, that could be seen as catastrophe, right, but okay, let's put a little ladybug in that hole. So it's really a matter of trying to change your frame of mind so that then you can just move forward rather than see it as a stalling point.

Corkie Bolton: 19:44

Yeah, that's great. I've worked with a lot of very experienced repair jewelers and they very much have that mindset. When they get the repair in, they're problem solving, they're looking at what can be done. It's really fascinating to watch in. They're problem solving, they're looking at what can be done. It's really fascinating to watch. Yeah, I bet you recently made a raven that was a functional bubble wand, which I'm obsessed with. Can you tell us about your kinetic pieces and functional objects, which I also feel like somewhat? They don't break the rules, but you are someone that is not holding yourself to. I'm a silversmith or jeweler. I'm going to just make what I want, and sometimes they're just pieces of art. I love that. I also love the commerce sneakers you made.

Nicole Ringgold: 20:30

Thank you. Yeah, the bubble one in particular. So this last week I taught a workshop called oh, the things you can think, and that the theme was really like think outside the box, don't come expecting to walk out, don't. Well, first, don't come with any expectations, and you're going to leave the workshop knowing things that you never imagined you would know, or making things you'd never imagined that you would make. Knowing things that you never imagined you would know, or making things you'd never imagine that you would make.

Nicole Ringgold: 20:59

And so I came in and on day one of those workshops I usually say hey, what is it that you want to learn this week? And then we go from there. That's where I start building my demonstrations. It's entirely based on what they come to the workshop wanting to know. So I don't have a set number of or a set list of demonstrations I'm going to do. It's, it's fun because it totally throws me for a loop every day. But so this particular workshop they came, some of them wanted to learn hinges, some of them wanted to learn how to layer sheet, some of them wanted to learn how to fuse and carve, some of them wanted to learn hollow horns, and so the raven was trying to incorporate all of those things that on day one they wanted to learn. And, of course, on day two, after we'd done the day one of layering the wings and forming with chasing and repose tools, I woke up the next morning with the bubble maker in my brain and I just went with it.

Nicole Ringgold: 22:01

Love that and the kinetics are interesting because now that I've done the kinetics or the chains, I started with the chains and then I went into some more kinetics and incorporated the natural stone which is also on the Raven, and then I went into the fusing and carving which was the raven's head. Those were sort of like my process and the forming of the winds kind of mirrors the botanical phase of my jewelry. The kinetics are now circling back to the chains, because all of my hidden components incorporate the chains that I taught myself how to make. So it's really just circling through the skills I've got and trying to figure out how to include them in fun, playful new ways.

Corkie Bolton: 22:48

Yes, I'm going to link your Raven piece for those listening in the show notes so that they can find it. Thank you. Some of the same ones you know that I mentioned in my book, but it's a really awesome thing to hold ourselves to. Let's be safe in the studio. Even as we break the rules and experiment, we still want to work in a safe kind of way. So you you had. You must wear closed toed shoes. That protects your feet. Obviously, if you have long hair, tie it up.

Corkie Bolton: 23:34

Don't wear loose fitting clothing or dangly jewelry, cause those can, because those can catch on fire, get pulled into rotary equipment. Wear an apron to protect your clothing and skin. Wear safety glasses. Wear appropriate personal protective equipment, such as a respirator, plastic apron when handling acids and chemicals and chemical resistant gloves. Don't use a cigarette lighter to ignite your torch. Have a current fire extinguisher at the ready in your studio. Shut down your tanks and bleed the hoses at the end of the day. Do not leave a flame on in between projects, which includes the pilot light if you have a dual gas torch, and ensure that there's adequate studio ventilation.

Corkie Bolton: 24:13

So I think that's great because you set that up for beginners, people like yourself perhaps who are coming at this from the very beginning, and then from there you really go throughout the book as to how you can break the rules and experiment, and I just love that so much, and I was mentioning to you before we started recording that you know your book is just filled with gorgeous pictures that your daughter took that are so up close and show your techniques so well. So for anyone listening, I'll of course be linking the book in the show notes. You should definitely get yourself a copy. It's a hardcover, it's so beautiful.

Nicole Ringgold: 24:54

Thank you.

Corkie Bolton: 24:55

The last, second to last thing I wanted to just briefly touch on is I know sustainability in your studio is super important to you. Do you have perhaps a few tips that you want to share with our community that you usually impart upon your own students?

Nicole Ringgold: 25:12

Oh yeah, sustainability is huge for me in all walks of life. Yeah, sustainability is huge for me in all walks of life. So my studio is very well ventilated, which isn't necessarily a possibility for some people who have a studio set in the closet or a studio set in the garage that's not well ventilated. So mine is very well ventilated. I have big, wide, open windows, a garage door that opens, and then I have loaded my place with plants which you know help clean the air. So there's that.

Nicole Ringgold: 25:43

But I also find it really important to use as little chemical, as few chemicals as possible. So, for instance, I don't use anything to prevent solder flow, except for heat sinks, so that eliminates chemical use there. So, for instance, if I have a solder joint that I want to prevent from reflowing, when I'm working on the next solder joint I will use a third hand, a pick tweezers, something like that, cross-locking tweezers, something like that. But so I don't want to use, I try to eliminate chemicals. And if you're in a home studio, you can use, instead of pickle, you can use a combination of vinegar, salt water. Instead of any kind of black mat or liver of sulfur, you can use hard-boiled eggs that are warm and you put your piece in with the crushed up, hard-boiled eggs, you can actually use honey as flux. So there are a lot of ways that, especially if you have children and you have a studio in your home and you have children in your home, there are ways to almost 100% eliminate the toxins.

Corkie Bolton: 26:54

Honey as flux you say Yep, that is a new one to me. Tell us more.

Nicole Ringgold: 27:03

Well, it can't be coagulated, it's got to be nice. You know blowing honey and I used it from our hives until I started teaching and then I had to eliminate that because it was definitely a more expensive form of flux. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can actually put warm water in with that honey to dilute it a little bit, and so it's not just this thick layer that you put on, but it works.

Nicole Ringgold: 27:26

It does work. And then just little things like we all get the packaging of silver from our wholesale suppliers I primarily get mine through Rio Grande but it comes wrapped in tissue paper, and so that tissue paper I save 100% of it. I use it all then to trace images off my phone that then I transfer to my sheet to saw out. So there are just. I don't have any paper towels in my studio. There are just things that I find really important to try to keep the smallest of footprints on our earth.

Corkie Bolton: 28:03

I love that. Thank you for sharing that with us. And you know you did kind of already mention your workshops and teaching style, but I would just, you know, love to close this out, to just tell us a little bit more about you know, your workshops on average, how many do you offer a year? How can people find out more?

Nicole Ringgold: 28:22

Yeah, that's a good question.

Nicole Ringgold: 28:25

I have been teaching too much, but right now this year I think, I'm teaching about one per month, maybe even more, and the workshops are usually five days and I teach generally six to eight workshops here in my studio in the spring and then again in the fall, and then I avoid the summer and winter months, since it's hard to access in the winter and we have wildfire possibilities in the summer and then in the um, and then I teach elsewhere and I try to change where I teach.

Nicole Ringgold: 29:00

So sometimes I'll teach on the East Coast one year, on the West Coast that same year, and then I might switch it the following year to somewhere in the Midwest and then somewhere internationally. So most of the all of the workshops that I teach through my studio are advertised on my own website and I have an email list, so if people were to want to be on that list, they can send me an email and they would be notified for when registration has opened for the following year. It all opens on November 1st and so then tends to sell quickly, but so it opens November 1st and then I have an email list for cancellations and then all of the other places that I teach. Most of them deal with the registration, but if people are on my email list, then I list those places and their contact information.

Corkie Bolton: 29:48

Can I ask you this is a selfish question for me as someone that you know? I dedicate a lot of time to running Metalsmith Society because I'm you know, I'm going through emails and tips from our community and talking to people and drafting it up and editing and putting all that out there and keeping my blog updated and doing this podcast and all these other things. But I'm also deeply passionate about my jewelry making. Deeply passionate about my jewelry making, and I know that with writing your book and teaching these workshops, I'm sure it sounds like you are busy. How do you carve away time to just do what you love, Right, Do you? And do you like time block? Are you like, okay, it's it's Tuesday and I'm going to just work on this piece? Or are you working on a whole collect, like, tell me more? How do I? You know what I mean?

Corkie Bolton: 30:41

yeah, I think that's the trouble when you're someone that's in the educational space as well as, like you, want to just make your jewelry as well right?

Nicole Ringgold: 30:49

yeah, it's a, I agree, I hear you and yes, it's constantly trying to regain that equilibrium, right. So oftentimes when I teach a workshop the next, I'll take the weekend off after teaching, which is rare, because when I'm working on my own I rarely take two days in a row off. But after a workshop I really try and then come back in on Monday, even if I have custom orders. I come back in, I tidy up my studio and I just do something that I want to do, and sometimes that branches into the two or three days and then I start tackling the custom orders.

Nicole Ringgold: 31:27

But yeah, I certainly have to carve that time out for myself, and the time isn't always necessarily. I need to carve it out so that I can create it's also. I need to carve it out so that I can create it's also. I need to carve it out so I can get up to an Alpine Lake. Or I need to carve it out so that I can go out for, you know, thrift store shopping with my daughter or something like that. But it's always trying to find that equilibrium. I think that when we own a business and our business has a lot of tentacles, we have to constantly prioritize time for outside of that business. Or if it's inside that business, then yes, the thing that drives your passion, because then you'll be burnt out.

Corkie Bolton: 32:09

Thank you for that. It's helpful to hear.

Nicole Ringgold: 32:11

I know I'm not alone.

Corkie Bolton: 32:12

I know there's a lot of us out there that we're parents or we're caretakers or we have full-time jobs. We're working at nonprofits, we're trying to do this thing and yeah.

Nicole Ringgold: 32:22

Yeah, I can't even imagine a world where I just like spent a week making jewelry. Right, I'd like to take workshops. Really, I get it. It's like a vacation. It's totally true. Yeah, and boy does this world appreciate you, corky, for the work that you've put in.

Corkie Bolton: 32:38

Thank you, that truly means the world to me. Thank you again, nicole, for joining me. You can find Nicole and her fabulous, fabulous work on Instagram at Ringgold Nicole. Also, how perfect is your name? Can we just stop and say that, nicole? Ringgold Like come on come on, you can find her work and workshops at NicoleRinglecom. And you must, I insist, you must purchase a copy of her book the New Metalsmith, which I will link in the show notes.

Nicole Ringgold: 33:07

Thank you so much.

Corkie Bolton: 33:08

Thank you, Nicole.

Nicole Ringgold: 33:10

I appreciate you.

Corkie Bolton: 33:12

Thank you so much for listening today. If you love the show, could you take a quick second to leave me a reading and review? That would be awesome. Also, I wanted to let you know that after I finished recording this episode with Nicole, her and I created a little bonus content for my Patreon members. So if you want to check that out, you can become a Patreon and join at patreoncom slash metalsmithsociety at patreoncom slash metalsmithsociety. And my other news is that we now have unisex cotton v-necks in stock at the Society Shop. This is something that people have been asking me for four years after my old supplier got discontinued. So if you're loving v-necks and you want to support the page, you can head over to metalsmithsocietycom, check out the unisex section and find the v-neck shirt. Alright, till next time.