How To Source Materials Responsibly For Jewelry Making With Special Guest Cristina Villegas

Today's episode is sponsored by New Cabochons! Use code METALSMITHSOCIETY for 10% off your order.

You can find more information about Cristina Villegas work on her website and you can follow her on Instagram @cristina.rocks.

Where To Find Certified Recycled Metals: Hoover & Strong,  Stuller, and Riva - Fairmined Gold Chains

Gemstones & Responsibly Sourced Suppliers: Find a full list of vetted suppliers for responsibly sourced gemstones and tools on the Metalsmith Society Suppliers Page.

Podcast Notes: We mentioned @wrmetalarts and Alliance For Responsible Mining

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Join our community: Metalsmith Society on Instagram.

Music attribution: Stock Music provided by RomanSenykMusic, from Pond5

Transcript

Welcome And Recording Disclaimer

Corkie Bolton 0:01

Welcome to Jewelry Making Tips with Metalsmith Society, the podcast for anyone passionate about jewelry making. I'm your host, Corkie Bolton. And on this podcast, I will discuss jewelry making tips, social media, marketing, running a jewelry business, along with insights from special guests in the jewelry industry who share their expertise and stories. Whether you've been making jewelry for a while or just starting your journey, this podcast is your go-to resource. So grab your tools, dust off your workbench, and join me. Hey friends. Before we dive in, just a quick little heads up about today's episode. It was actually recorded about a year ago. Life got super busy, and while dealing with some family stuff, this episode, which is on a very important topic, did get pushed to the back burner. Everything we talk about is still completely relevant, except for when we mentioned the price of gold. That one has not aged well. Okay, let's get into it.

Meet Christina And Her Background

Corkie Bolton 1:04

In today's episode, I'm super excited to have a conversation with Christina Villegas. She is going to be discussing with me the importance of responsible sourcing when it comes to raw materials, minerals in jewelry making. Christina, welcome. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.

Cristina Villegas 1:22

I'm really delighted to be here. So thank you so much, Corkie.

Corkie Bolton 1:25

Yeah. So I would love to share with our community, my podcast listeners, a little bit about your background and how you got involved in responsible mining and sourcing.

Cristina Villegas 1:39

Yeah, I uh so despite my youthful appearance, I joke that I'm actually quite elderly. Yeah. So yeah, there's some secret like gray hairs underneath there. But uh yeah, uh about more than 20 years ago, I started off my career working for an international foundation. And more and more of the grants were going to small human rights organizations really in the middle of nowhere, who were dealing with what are what's called point source pollution problems, which is a large mining company polluting on indigenous lands and not cleaning up. And they had the science, they had the documentation, but they did not have like a court system to take it to because people are being paid off or the court was broken. The court system was broken. And so I just got really interested in where human rights, the impacts on rural people, indigenous communities, corporate supply chains all kind of collide in one place and what to do about it. And so I went to grad school and then accidentally ended up working with one of the top experts in the world, a woman named Estelle Levin. And she needed somebody uh very quickly because she was heavily pregnant. And uh so I became her uh number two. And yeah, that's how I got my first initial work in jewelry was helping her as her deputy. So uh and then I went to Uganda after that, and then a few years later I ended up at an organization called PACT, and I've been there for 11 and a half years.

Corkie Bolton 3:16

Amazing. So you've been in this space for quite a while. Correct. That's awesome. Can you talk with us a little bit about what does responsible mining really mean?

Mining Types And Power Dynamics

Corkie Bolton 3:28

And how does it differ from traditional mining practices? That is a loaded question.

Cristina Villegas 3:35

But that is a question that needs to be asked. So let me um just back up um just for a moment before I dive into that question. So mining is a spectrum of activity. When most people think about mining, they think of big machines. Big machines, excited engineers, hard hats, huge tracts of land, millions, if not billions, of dollars of investment. That's what most people, I think, imagine. That's what's called large-scale mining or larger scale mining or commercial mining or industrial mining. And that is what produces about 90% of all materials around the world on average, but it employs about 10% of all mine workers because it's so efficient. 10% of all mining workers, 90% of production. But in the jewelry space, they produce uh 75% of all gold, 80% of all diamonds, and about 20% of all colored gems. So the the average it goes up and down as far as what they produce. On the opposite side are people using shovels and picks and human strength to pull minerals out of the ground. And this is what's called artisanal mining. So imagine like gold paner populations. This is 90% of all mine workers around the world is this population. And uh in the in the jewelry sector, they produce about 20-25% of all gold around the world. So they are not some tiny population. The most commonly mined material anywhere by anyone is gold. And so 25% is a lot, and one-third of this enormous population are women. And people are shocked by that and also intrigued. And I love working with women just in general. But uh with women minor, with women miners, I admire them so much because there's so many reasons why they go into mining for professional nerddom. They're the other two, but also they're engineers, geologists, whatever it is. But but also because there's usually some kind of shock event that sent them into mining. And I just admire them like the grit that it takes. Part of all the mining jokes that we might have in this podcast.

Corkie Bolton 5:59

We we always welcome a pun here, a joke, we're for it.

Cristina Villegas 6:04

So you have these kind of two ends of a spectrum, and you have some folks in the middle, what's called small scale mining. And so you might hear the term artisanal and small scale mining, and they get grouped together, but they're actually distinct populations. So artisanal is people using shovels and picks, and small scale is the more mechanized folks that have hired geologists or two, have hired an engineer or two, but they're still like it's kind of a small shop. But they kind of get smushed together in the same area because they have they both have trouble managing their social and environmental impacts, and that's why they got to call it ASM. And so you'll hear me say artisanal miners or small-scale miners, and I'm being very specific on purpose. Now, artisanal miners, small-scale miners, and large-scale miners, they can all be illegal. They can all be completely illegal, illegal, and and their activities can be completely illegal. So let's be clear just because a large-scale operation has the permits does not mean they're following the law. And so let's be like really clear on that. And so sometimes you might hear companies say, oh, those illegal artisanal miners, oh, they're so criminals, but they themselves are acting criminally. That company themselves is acting criminally because they're not managing their environmental responsibilities per national law. So I just want to be like really clear about like the law can be used as a weapon, yeah, and it is usually only enforced against poor people.

Corkie Bolton 7:33

Yeah, 100%, 100%. And the people that don't have you know the funds to defend themselves. Yes, exactly.

Cristina Villegas 7:40

And who's hiring those soldiers to violently clear them off? So, and and who is there first, and who's you know, aligned with the military, you know, and who's been able to pay off in a carry to clear people out and acquire permits. So I just want to set the scene. And I Real Talk. Yeah, real, yeah, real talk. So, but I also want to acknowledge that there can be some amazing allies out there that are from the community that also operate these large mines and these or obviously advanced small-scale mines that are true allies, and that I've been delighted, and I've run to partner with them. And there are a whole toolbox of solutions of engagement and commercial relationships that I have personally worked on. And so when when sometimes when companies like pretend to throw up their hands and being like, Oh, there are no solutions that work, I look at them and I'm like, well, I can give you a whole list of examples on what can work in this precise situation. So, you know, we can pretend this doesn't work or we can actually talk about it. So, anyways, I get kind of I get passionate.

Corkie Bolton 8:51

Do you feel do you feel open right now to giving a few shout-outs to those larger companies? We we are gonna, you know, we're gonna provide the listeners with a list of some recommended places to source both gemstones and materials, but just larger companies, like give me a few examples if you can.

Cristina Villegas 9:09

Yeah, so um examples. I I will talk about De Beers, for example. They, you know, people are often surprised when I talk about De Beers because you know, we have, I think sometimes people imagine a company in the 1990s that, you know, was not a good actor. Let's be time, it's again real talk. But that company has changed. And I want to give them credit, and I give credit where it's due. So I think it's important to do that because we have to we have to send we have to give positive reinforcement when things change, and we can't just keep like shattered in the corner. So we have to like invite people in the room and reward them when they ch when when things are things are when things are great. And this company has done the right thing and they've done it authentically. And I want to say thank you, and you should buy their stuff, buy their good stuff, I should say. See bed mining, I don't like that. But but but the Beers has this really cool program called Gem Fair. It's Gem Fair, so G-E-M-F-A-I-R. And it's this beautiful program in Sierra Leone. They don't have any programs in Sierra Leone, except for this random program that they work with artisanal miners because they chose to, because they are confronting the consumer image of miners head on, and they realize that consumers still think that the Sierra Leone war is still happening, and so they're directly confronting this lore and saying actually diamonds can be a beautiful thing, even in this population that has this like grotesque stereotype against them. And you should check out their website. I think it's gemfair.com. Gemfair, spell the American way, not with the little E at the end, like British way.

Corkie Bolton 10:54

Yeah, yeah, like you're going to like the like Renaissance Fair. Renaissance Fair, yeah, exactly.

Cristina Villegas 11:00

So that's just one example. But other examples have been like technical assistance immediately off the concession, where you like a project I worked on in the Congo, where a company hired PACT to, or my employer, to help artisanal miners mine in a safe way on a concession and not go too deep and remove what's called the overburden, which is like the big layer of dirt before the good stuff, and make sure that there weren't fatalities in that process because that's the most dangerous part. And so that makes sense because large-scale miners are really good at safety in general, and artistic miners are not. And so that's an amazing example of protecting yourself against liability and then also helping the miners live a better life and not not have to like work so hard for something that this mining company has expertise in. But

What Responsible Mining Really Means

Cristina Villegas 11:56

I want to go back to your question. I'm so sorry. I went on a tangent. Back to your question.

Corkie Bolton 12:00

I love a tangent, so I'm here for it.

Cristina Villegas 12:03

So just responsible mining, it's it's keeping in mind the social, environmental, and human rights responsibilities of mining operation and abiding by national law in the case of larger scale mines. With regard to artisanal mining, this is a more complicated story. In this case, it is not partaking in human rights violations and doing as much as you can to become a legal miner. And that is not always possible with the artisanal mining populations because how the law has been written for this very vulnerable group. And it's not always possible for them to become legal because of their own vulnerability. Literally, they might have to be on a bus for 11 hours to the capital city to try to register a piece of land, and then it cost $500 to register that piece of land, and then they have to pay off many, many people in the government and then make $2 a day.

Corkie Bolton 13:09

Yeah, I mean, that's just we got to pause on that for a second. I mean, just the like the unlivable wages and the barriers where I mean, again, we we're keeping it jewelry focused, but there's a lot of parallels here in the US, like people trying to just, you know, you're not coming from that point of privilege and to even just, you know, try to survive when the you know pay that you're getting is just not even a livable wage. And then you add the the poor work environment in some of these cases, the danger to their health. And then, yeah, trying to, I mean, that sounds like a really hard process for people.

Cristina Villegas 13:44

Yeah. And that's why I I am like, hold up, let's take a take a step back here. Let's talk about different like scales planning and who we're talking about. Because the people I work with, especially the program that I I personally set up and I adore, the Moyo Gems program. Moyo is M-O-Y-O Gems. Most of the women minors that I work with haven't graduated elementary school. And so some of them can't read and some can't write. And so we have to be really careful about what we're asking people to do. And if we're asking people to become legal, we have to give people a reason to do that. And if the government's not there and there's no reason, no incentive to do so, then why would they? And if it's not available to them, then why would they? And how can they? So that's why I have lower expectations of this community because we should. And that's not it's not disrespect, it's just it's inclusivity point, and it's a it's a it's a point of compassion. And I think it's something that that people who lead

Ethical Vs Responsible And Greenwashing

Cristina Villegas 14:54

with their heart should really understand and appreciate when we're thinking about who's making our raw materials.

Corkie Bolton 15:02

For sure. Absolutely. This is a kind of nice segue. If you can just briefly touch on, you know, I personally am very mindful of this on my own jewelry website. We were introing each other a little bit before we got on record here, and I didn't mention, so I am a goldsmith and an engraver, and under Corkie Bolton Jewelry, that's my jewelry line. I, you know, I produce my own jewelry. And I'm very careful on my website to say responsibly sourced materials when that is the instance and not use the word ethical. Can we just talk about, you know, maybe we could touch on greenwashing, but just generally like ethical versus responsible, what should people say? And maybe just, you know, not to make it too long of a question, but sort of like, what should what should someone be meeting in order to be able to say that?

Cristina Villegas 15:59

So I don't use, I don't like the word ethical. I didn't use to mind it, but I've since been convinced that I shouldn't be using that term because people, at least in the US, seem to have a strong reaction to it. And I think it's it seems to be loaded with judgment. And responsible seems to be a less judgment-laden term. And so that's kind of why I use responsible more. And so some groups, so like I'm I'm part of, I'm on the board of the what's what was formerly known as ethical metalsmiths. Now it's the community for ethical jewelry. They kept the ethical part in there because they wanted to kind of keep the name so people would still recognize the organization. But this came up, this term came up, and so they kept kept it because of a branding issue, but they're aware that it can be, you know, kind of a hot button word. But my my personal point um when people use this word is responsible responsibility in jewelry. Responsible is not a legal term, so you have to be careful when you use it because you know, legal can be responsible. It can also be irresponsible, let's be very clear. You know, the law, in my my previous point, it it can be used as a as a weapon. So so when you say I'm I'm a responsible jeweler, you should say what what do you mean by that? So I'm responsible because I I source in these ways. I preference post-consumer recycled metals, certified post-consumer recycled metals. And we can go, we'll go, we'll go into that in a minute because I don't believe the recycled term because it's a big red flag, and we'll go into that in a minute. But just saying responsible consumers should be skeptical because it means that you know, I'm I'm an ethical person. How do you know? I'm just saying it. But if I say I'm an ethical person because then they get more information and and they can ask you that about those things. So I think we all have a responsibility to guard against greenwashing and it costs also like push ourselves to like figure out like, well, what does that mean? What does it mean to us? How do we define it? And and then also just recognize that responsibility is a journey, and we don't have to be perfect. And I think I think the activist community sometimes gets in its own way by like demanding perfection. And that is unreasonable, in my opinion, and I tell them that all the time. Don't get in your own way. We cannot be perfect. Start somewhere, lean into it, and then just like choose the next thing, and then lean into that and have a conversation with your clients. And like if you speak about it passionately, you'll probably convince them and do it well, and then choose the next thing. So don't try to be perfect because no one's perfect.

Corkie Bolton 19:06

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Cristina Villegas 20:16

Yes.

Corkie Bolton 20:17

And I love them, Shadows. Love them too so much. And, you know, and I tell my customers, I'm sourcing from here and only here. Yeah, because we have, you know, for example, I like to use their Canadian origin salt and pepper diamonds. And, you know, I learned this in Tucson when working with them that, you know, salt and pepper diamonds largely have no origin source because it's discarded. You could probably speak on this better, but I don't want to put us off on a tangent, but it's just to say that I specifically bought ones that do have origin. And that means that they know the mine that it's coming from. You know, they have the idea of, you know, how workers are working there. Like, and you're hearing me kind of describe it like this is the jeweler's perspective, right? And some of it is like, we need to make sure that we ask the questions from who we're sourcing from, of course. And at the end, we're gonna talk a little bit more about how someone can do that. But yeah, I kind of got us off on the tangent. But if I explain to my customer, this is the reason I only source from them, right? I'll only get Canadian Meli from them, my small diamonds. Is it it? Yes, it's more expensive. It's worth it.

Cristina Villegas 21:31

Exactly. Well, it's more expensive, but there's a value there.

Corkie Bolton 21:34

Yes, yes, 100%. I mean, yes, yes. And so, so yes, I think that conversation is super important. We get educated and we can educate. And I'm like you, I'm like very passionate about it. So your customers feel that vibe, they're like, yes, I'm hyped for this right now.

Cristina Villegas 21:51

Um and I do want to be clear like, you know, I while I always give people credit, I also do criticize private. Privately and sometimes sometimes sometimes publicly, as people who know me well. So Sevier's there are some things I have publicly criticized them about, and they know it. And so I can get under their skin sometimes. But I will that they also know that I will give them credit when it's due. And so I so yeah, we we do have a friendly relationship. So I I think it's really important to call out people when when they're doing great. And on the Gem Fair issue, they're doing great. And I and I love the new collaboration that they're doing with Botswana. You know, they've been having a business relationship for decades.

Speaker 1 22:36

Yeah.

Cristina Villegas 22:36

But apparently Botswana is buying in even more. So I'm loving that. I just did a new post on my own Instagram about it, I think yesterday. And um, I'm loving the direction of that.

Corkie Bolton 22:48

So we'll so you know, and real quick before we hop into the next question, though, your your work and you need to be protected. Yeah. It's great that you're speaking out, you're educating others. We're gonna talk at the end about ways people can support you in your work because it's amazing. Um, you know, we touched a little bit on this, but in terms of we started to talk about, you know, some of the aspects of mining and the different types.

Gold And Silver Impacts Explained

Corkie Bolton 23:14

Could we could we chat a little bit about metals specifically? What are the environmental and social issues surrounding gold and silver mining? And you could also educate us as to where these are mined. Because I don't know all of our listeners now.

Cristina Villegas 23:29

Yeah, so gold is mined in 70 countries around the world. There are more miners of gold than anything else. Wow. And and it's gonna increase because gold is at record prices right now. Last I checked, it was at $3,100 a Troy ounce, but I think it's even higher than that right now. Yeah, so as goldsmiths, you'll know you'll actually know the price. Yeah. If you Google it now, it's probably what $3,500 an ounce.

Corkie Bolton 23:57

It's it well, it's been kind of around, it's been popping up and down, but it's averaging about $3,100 per ounce. Okay. And silver is around $29, $30, $31.

Cristina Villegas 24:09

Okay. Yikes. Yikes. Yeah. A lot of plating, I'm sure, is happening out with you, but in general, that's the only way to survive. Well, get, yeah, keep clients, I guess. But anyways. So yeah, with gold. One of the interesting things when I first started my career in 20, when I first started my career kind of intensively with artisanal mining in 2010, was we were in the middle of a global gold rush, like massive global gold rush, because the gold, the global uh gold price had gone from $400 a troy ounce to almost $2,000 a troy ounce. Oh, back in the day, oh, don't we wish that was the price still? And when you get when you get that kind of dramatic increase, you have everyone and their auntie and their uncle in the village running out to the mines because there is a very low barrier to entry in the mines, in the artisanal mines. All you need is a shovel and a strong back.

Corkie Bolton 25:11

Is there, real quick, a direct correlation to the gold cost on the market to how much miners get paid?

Cristina Villegas 25:18

Yes. On so how people get paid in the artisanal mining camps depends on their role on the site. So the diggers, actually, I shouldn't say diggers, because that's actually a really derogatory term. I don't use it in a derogatory way, but if you hear people say diggers, you should think about uh if they're using it in a derogatory way, so just like check them on that.

Corkie Bolton 25:41

Yeah.

Cristina Villegas 25:41

So I should say the people who are digging.

Corkie Bolton 25:43

Yes.

Cristina Villegas 25:44

I'm checking myself. So uh the people who are digging will of all the people who are working will often get the bigger price. But of all the people on that site, the financier of a site, people who are paying the workers and the people who are paying for all the equipment, they get the best, the biggest cut of the money. And then the landowner will get the next biggest cut of the money, and then the rest of the workers will have to split the rest. So usually the landowner will get a third, the financier will get a third, and the then the um all the mine workers will split the last third. So that kind of gives you an idea about just how everything's set up against the miners. And so I say miners, anybody who works with soil on a mine site is a miner.

Corkie Bolton 26:30

Yes.

Cristina Villegas 26:30

Because you have people hauling, you have people digging, you have people sorting, you have everybody working on that site. And so in general, in general, you have artisanal and small-scale miners make about 80% of the global gold price. So, and then that's divided amongst all those roles, as in that formula I just said. This is in general, you know, it'll change depending on if it's a cooperative or a company or uh, you know, a bunch of people just hungry and barefoot and dividing things. So lots of different ways that they set themselves up. And it depends on the region. And I worked everywhere, so I've seen it all. I've been in rush environments, I've been in, you know, just community environments, in migratory environments. It's it's it's it's fascinating. And and women tend to mine separately and on their own, but like they when they work in mixed environments, they are usually pushed to the side and work in and work in what are called support roles. And I always get like really mad when people say that, but you'll hear that term support roles. And anyways, don't even get me started. So I forgot your question. Oh yeah, you said cool.

Corkie Bolton 27:37

So environmental and social impact. You're starting to kind of talk about it already. Thank you for keeping on track, me on track, yes.

Cristina Villegas 27:43

So, yeah, so uh so gold mining takes place in 70 countries around the world, almost every continent except Antarctica. Who knows what the future holds, and particularly climate change. And so, in terms of environmental consequences, a lot of folks are familiar with the use of mercury in articinal and small-scale gold mining and cyanide use in this uh this population as well. And miners

Mercury Use And Safer Alternatives

Cristina Villegas 28:15

might know that it is killing them or disabling them, or they might not.

Corkie Bolton 28:21

Can you mention how it's used?

Cristina Villegas 28:22

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's used to extract gold from what's called concentrate. So you have the you got the ore, which is where the gold fleaks are in, and then you concentrate it, which is you get less dirt, more concentrated sand, and then you apply mercury, you put it through a cloth, and then you there's a couple of steps there, you burn it off, and then when you burn it off, it turns from a liquid into a gas that go directly to your lungs. I'm hearing fumes, I'm hearing skin contact, like yeah, and as a goldsmith, yeah, you know, in an enclosed environment, you need to have well vent what well ventilated environment, right? So like all these red alarm bells are going off. And it's a toxic, it's it's a neurotoxin, right?

Corkie Bolton 29:10

Yes.

Cristina Villegas 29:10

People over here are like, I shouldn't eat too much fish with mercury, and it's like such a privileged Well, it's funny you say that because not funny, but coincidence, you know, it's it's interesting you say that, I should say, because artisanal and small-scale miners are the number one users and polluters of mercury in the world. Number one. So bigger than coal fired, fire plants, bigger than anyone else in the world, dentists, whatever it is. And so much so that there's a global mercury treaty called the Minimata Convention that was signed around 2013 that actually names them in the convention. And good for the UN because and good for the people who work with artisanal miners, because they actually named them and said, you can't just ban mercury because that won't work, you'll just send it underground, so to speak. Literally, people will be burning underground, which will just make it worse. You have to engage this population and do technology transfer. So you have to like do harm reduction, you have to like teach them other things. That's one thing up PACT has been doing for like years and years, and other organizations like the Alliance for Responsible Mining, they're based in Colombia, they run the Fair Mind brand. I love them so much. It's run by an organization called the Alliance for Responsible Mining.

Corkie Bolton 30:24

Okay, we'll mention that at the end and in the show notes.

Cristina Villegas 30:27

Yeah, gold. If you if you Google gold mercury mining, you'll hear all about it and you'll learn all about all about it. The great news is that there's there's plenty of chemical-free ways to mine gold, but what is needed is engaging these populations. And usually once the populations hear about um the harmful effects it has, you have their attention. Or they might not know that there's actually an alternative, and they can act that that can actually protect themselves and their families. And so once you say actually, once once when you're burning it in your house, you're actually affecting your pregnant spouse because it's it's going to the ceiling above your stove. And once your pregnant spouse is cooking, it is turning from a it, you know, goes above your stove, it sticks to the ceiling, and then when she cooks, it's affecting her and the baby. And that baby is going to be having developmental issues because she'll be exposed again and again and again. And there's intergenerational IQ loss. And this is, and just imagine being in a mining camp and you're working so hard and you think you're providing a better life, but in fact, it's like this doom loop of poverty, and it's because of just these conditions. And so as a jeweler, I would want to be comp, you know, buying gold that is contributing to systemic change where miners are being paid better, are not using mercury because they're being educated not to use mercury. And so that's why I push Fair Mind so strongly, is because ARM, the Alliance for Responsible Mining, is such a beautiful organization. And what they do is truly beautiful. And so if you can, I would try to convince your consumers to buy the stuff because it's actually not that more, it's not that much more expensive. People think it is, but it's not. And so I really urge folks who really care to start switching to that.

Corkie Bolton 32:27

Vote vote with your dollar. I would love if you also educated us about silver because I know a lot of our listeners use silver. I mean, yeah, most of our community members, it's that gateway metal slash drug into this industry.

Cristina Villegas 32:42

Silver is often a byproduct of other metals. So it is often, yes, there are minds that focus on silver. There is Fairmine Silver available. It's largely from the best outfits on silver are in Latin America. I'm not a silver specialist, so I don't want to kind of speak on something that I don't know a ton about. But one of our board members in the community for ethical jewelry, a guy named Will, who's a metalsmith as well and a silversmith, he knows a lot more about it. So maybe in the show notes, um, we can list him and people can talk to him about all the things.

Corkie Bolton 33:17

Okay, Will, I was gonna, I was just about to ask you, is that Will? Yes. Um, Will and I spoke on a panel together at a snag conference a few years ago, and he is such an amazing source for all of that information. I'm gonna, in the show notes, I'm gonna put Will's Instagram as well. I think we already touched upon one question, which is that, you know, I think if if people are looking for recycled metals, they should look for the certified ones.

Cristina Villegas 33:41

Yeah, post-consumer, certified, and the post-consumer part is important. Unfortunately, it's still true that anything can be melted down and then called recycled. So literally, it can come from a conflicted place, melted down literally an hour later, and then exported as recycled.

Corkie Bolton 34:04

Yeah.

Cristina Villegas 34:05

And that is legitimately, in quotes, exported as recycled. And I think consumers would be shocked and appalled. I think jewelers would be shocked and appalled. Most jewelers, maybe, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say most. The uh the reform jewelers will be shocked and appalled. So there's a lot of people like me who are calling calling that out. If you really do want to have something that's true, you should look for post-consumer recycled, which is things that were once jewelry that were worn by people, that are then melted down and made it made into new things. That's what people usually think about as recycled. So let's call it that and let's like certify that.

Corkie Bolton 34:47

Post-consumer certified. This is a question I wasn't prepared to ask, but I'm curious. Maybe you know, maybe you don't. But what about when you send your dirty sweeps to a refining company and then they give you back gold? That's reduced. That's totally fine. That's kind of cool because like I just sent in a refining bucket for that I'd been saving up for about a year and a half, and uh it was it came back worth $1,400. I had them just send me gold back.

Cristina Villegas 35:14

Yep, love it.

Corkie Bolton 35:17

Where do you buy your jewelry making supplies and tools? I get that question constantly. So I built a page for it. Head over to Metalsmithsociety.com and find my suppliers and promos section. You'll find Guesswine for tools, lucidity for responsibly sourced stones for your next project, casting suppliers, and more. And if there's a promo code to be had, you'll find it there too. Again, that's metalsmithsociety.com and head over to the suppliers and promos page. Let's talk about red flags

Recycled Metal Claims And Certification

Corkie Bolton 35:54

jewelers should watch out for when they're sourcing gemstones. We're switching gears a little bit. I do want to be mindful again of your time. I feel like we could talk for three hours.

Cristina Villegas 36:03

Yeah. When you're buying gemstones or diamonds or everything.

Corkie Bolton 36:07

Yeah, you're you're uh you're a you know newer member to the Metal Sith Society, you're, you know, a jeweler. You're just starting to get out there. And, you know, a lot of people they get messaged on Instagram from gemstone dealers. And I know this is that we don't have a lot of specificity here, right? And we don't want to make any generalizations, but you know, people find things on Etsy. What are some immediate red flags that you could maybe let us know for someone that's just starting to educate themselves about all this?

Cristina Villegas 36:34

I have red flags, but I just wanted to kind of start with one thought, which is I think for for people who want to be really intentional and kind of want to set up themselves for success on being really intentional as responsible jewelers, I think they have to kind of change the frame on how jewelry designers do their thing. I spend a lot of time with designers because I I love you all. I'm not a designer myself, but I love you all. You're art artists, and you spend a lot of time by yourselves, and then like when you like go into these social events, like you like spring on me, touch my jewelry, and like invade my personal space, and I love it because like you're so excited. And then I buy from you, and like you're so excited because I'm buying from you. Anyways, but so I learned a lot, I talked to you all, and so I I understand a bit of your process. Usually, you know, you have this amazing idea in your head, and then you go find the stones to like that match the idea. And my suggestion for those people who want to change things up is that you find the stones and then you design around them. Right now, the the colored gemstone sector is uh there's a is a few really cool initiatives happening, but uh they're very small and they're emerging, and we don't have all the coolest things yet. We have a lot of cool, a lot of cool stuff, but it's not gonna be like every single thing you can possibly imagine. So if you could kind of flip the way that you that you do things, or just be open to if you have a design and just be open like about subbing in some stones that like would be almost as amazing because and and probably even more amazing because they have a cool store behind them. That's what I would encourage you do you do. So, because yeah, random people will email you all the time or or message you on Instagram. I have people like that all the time with me too. First of all, you don't know, you don't know if they're selling glass, obviously. So beware. You don't know where that gemstone came from.

Corkie Bolton 38:36

Sorry, so many questions here running through my head. I've also had community members reach out to me about what you know, should I source from them? And that's why my like list of people that I source from is is really short. I get my opals from Ancient 17, I get my diamonds from Misfit Diamonds, that's kind of like and sapphires from them. And, you know, I do occasionally source from like Stular, and you know, that's sort of there's so many tangents we could go off on because like I'm just saying, like, just because it is one of the major companies, like,

Gemstone Sourcing Red Flags And Fakes

Corkie Bolton 39:10

I don't know, like you don't always know the story on everything that's happening. I don't know. I'm not saying they do or don't. So, you know, for glass and fake, what are like the most common fake things that are produced?

Cristina Villegas 39:23

Yeah, and just to say that Stellar's awesome.

Corkie Bolton 39:26

Stellar, yeah, I'm gonna say they have certified metal program and everything. Yes.

Cristina Villegas 39:30

And so is Rio Grande. They're awesome too.

Corkie Bolton 39:33

You, you know, we're talking about red flags in or stones, and you did mention that sometimes people can buy glass. I know we can't like generally, I mean, it's just there's there's a lot of fakes out there, but sort of is there like one kind of thing that's most commonly faked out with that kind of unfortunately no.

Cristina Villegas 39:49

You got you, you really have to be like you really have to be like on your guard all the time, and even in the mines. There's a guy named Richard Hughes who is like revered in on the sapphire space, sapphire and rubies space, and he spends a lot of time in in Asia, and he has a saying that closer to the mines you are, the more synthetics you'll find, or glass you'll find. And it's because the rival gem traders will bring it in to sabotage their enemies. Inexperienced gemstone dealers will buy will spend thousands of dollars on glass and lose all their money. The more experienced ones will buy the real stones because they they know how to separate glass and real gems. So just because you're near mine doesn't mean you're actually buying gemstones.

unknown 40:39

Yeah.

Cristina Villegas 40:40

So you got to be really careful. It's crazy. And so that's one of the reasons that you want to get like a GIA training or how or have someone that you know have it, or you know, or whatever it is, you know, as uh you might know that I have a collaboration with GIA. So my interest.

Corkie Bolton 40:56

So I was just I was just at the bench workshop at Stular and I was doing demoing and it was an amazing experience. And I know GIA independently has a space within Stular where they have these amazing machines, and it's like, so yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, it's like, yeah, they're they're doing all the right stuff over there too. And and I also occasionally hear stories about people like spending money and then they don't actually get the stones. So if if this is you or these are your concerns, definitely stick with just you could just literally buy stones from Stellar or Rio Grande just as examples and know that you know you're definitely getting the stone, it's definitely real. They have quality control out to Wazoo.

Cristina Villegas 41:33

So correct. Yeah. Um, and and for metals, I love Hoover and Strong. Uh, they carry Fair Mind and Riva Precision. They're in New York. They carry Fair Mind and they do chain. So if you're looking for that, you know, chain, that elusive chain, they do it. And they also do lots of other things. For gemstones, full disclosure, I work with Anza Gems out of Seattle.

Corkie Bolton 41:57

Let's promote that. I look at the website, you know, it's tell us about it.

Cristina Villegas 42:02

Yeah, it's run by Monica Stevenson, who is a co-founder of Moyo. Also Maison Piot out of France. They're also they also buy Moyo Gems. They're partners there 1948 out of the UK. Uh, they have Sri Lankan sapphires and Moyo Gems, and then Mina Stones out of Nigeria. They have all these uh West African stones, and she's a powerhouse. Um, so it's a different model, and she's amazing. And so it's Mina Stones. I think it's dot com, but uh, there's another Mina Stones out of like Central America, so don't be confused. One's in Spanish and one's one's like Latin American, one's Nigerian, so you can tell the difference.

Corkie Bolton 42:45

I'm I'm nodding and smiling like crazy because at Tucson this year, I went to the Ethical Gem Show. Yeah. I saw Monica at Moya, like now I'm like all the pieces of the puzzle. Like I know a lot of these players. Yeah. And uh, you know, that's another thing. Shout out to like if you care about this, you can go to Tucson and go to these shows and meet, and I met with Misfit and I met with Ancient 17 like that, and then you see it in person. Anyways, I know it's a lot, but it's it's really goals. If it's important to you, you can make those industry connections. And you'd be surprised, like the they they don't just have stones that are really out of budget either. You can find things that are on your level of of where you're working now. So sorry, I'm just excited. So yes.

Cristina Villegas 43:34

Yeah, and the last one I want to just give a really good shout out to is Columbia Gem House. And they're like the granddaddy of them all. And maybe Eric doesn't like that because I it me maybe me means he's old, but it's it's out of respect. Yes. Eric was there before anybody else, and Eric Bronwart out of uh Washington State, Columbia Gem House, I think like the Columbia River, and they have all the all the things, and actually literally.

Corkie Bolton 44:00

Literally all the things. So in my work, I use these tiny two millimeter cabochons. I went to Columbia Gym House while I was in Tucson. And I mean, I got like sapphire and like the Ruby and all these. They they had like tiny, you know, and yeah. That's my friend Lear. She actually like went over to their booth and started sourcing things. It's so fun to go to Tucson anyway. So yes, Columbia Gym House, amazing.

Cristina Villegas 44:27

Exactly. So, and and just with gems, like, you know, there's there's so many things that come out of a mine. So you have like the ultra high value things, and yeah, like those will be at like Paris Fashion Week. Okay. Like those are things I I cannot afford. I live like a nonprofit life, right?

Speaker 1 44:45

Yeah.

Cristina Villegas 44:46

But there are beautiful things that are in my price range. And I kind of give two F's, like they have, you know, little inclusions in the middle. And actually, I love inclusions and they have amazing color. And that's what I care about. And they're huge and I can afford that. And this is like between like $100 and $200, you know? And so, like, that's affordable to me. So, so I think don't be intimidated by the term ethical or term responsible. It's still affordable. Now, the like higher end things, yeah, it's gonna be several hundred dollars. And yeah, if they have full traceability, that's gonna be a value add for your consumer. And just make sure you get wholesale prices, you know. Just negotiate that with whoever you're dealing with. But these are we're all part of a community, they're also lovely people, and they want to help you and serve you. So there's lots of reasons why you should go to these folks because they're gonna sell you real gems, they're gonna sell you gems from miners they know and who they've worked with over time. Eric can tell you about his fair trade system that

Trusted Suppliers And Ethical Gem Shows

Cristina Villegas 45:54

he set up, about like the fair trade number one through five. One meaning they know everything about that and it satisfies like social, environmental, human rights criteria. Five, is that they don't they don't know they don't know a lot about it. They don't have a lot of um fives. But two, they you know it's not not quite there yet, but they're working toward it. So like that's like that's total transparency. You can kind of opt in to what you want to buy. Yeah. So if you want to buy a mine that's like, you know, in the middle of the road, but like working towards number one, that's awesome. So you can just like talk to folks and like you know, figure out where you are and then your price point and kind of where you want to land. And yeah, so my so go to these ethical gem fairs. There's a whole website, and then they travel. So that's that's my promo.

Corkie Bolton 46:41

Yeah, and you know, we answered because we're amazing at this. Yes, one of the last questions, which is how do independent jewelers who don't have huge purchasing power still make responsible sourcing decisions. And I would say, like, absolutely, Columbia Gym House has turquoise. They have stones that are $10. So it's it's really awesome. And I just want to say, you know, this conversation has made me reflect on the fact that my chains are not certified recycled. And so I'm going to, you know, moving forward and maybe even update some things. I don't have a ton of chains on my website. I think I only have like three necklaces, but um, I'm gonna make sure that I add that. And I think that's important. And, you know, I have an FAQ on my website where I talk about, you know, the sourcing of the diamonds and what is I talk about what is responsible metal. It's a work in progress. I'm always trying to do better. And this really does parlay into you know, our final question, which is how can someone listening be an ally to this cause? And we're also gonna right after that, you're gonna talk a little bit about PACT and your website, but you know, how can someone listening, yeah, be an ally?

Cristina Villegas 48:01

So I think too many people kind of like sit back and just like listen. And like sit back and like be like, oh, that's so nice. And they don't do anything. And I think we have to stop passively just watching, and we have to start actively working and leaning in. Because you know, clicking like doesn't actually do anything. Buying the stuff and making you know making proactive changes does actually achieve something. Because we we're at a really cool moment right now where we have an embarrassing number of gold initiatives that are actually engaging miners on mercury on you know on Mercury and working with women minors on economic empowerment, on diversification, on getting their licenses, on an economic ladder. We have an embarrassing number of initiatives on gemstones now. That was not the case six years ago. That was not the case. I was being told my face that it was it was impossible to trace colored gemstones. It was impossible to engage in colored gemstones. People were like laughing at me while I've proved them wrong, and now there's an embarrassing number of initiatives. So, but these things will not survive and not thrive without people actually moving from sitting back and watching to actually buying the stuff. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that today's my last day at PACT.

Corkie Bolton 49:41

Yes, tell us about that.

Cristina Villegas 49:42

So it is May 2nd. I was laid off earlier this week.

Corkie Bolton 49:48

So sorry.

Cristina Villegas 49:48

Uh yeah, after 11 and a half years at Pact, it was a it was a surprise, but not a surprise, because PACT was had 43 awards from the US government, awards being like grants and contracts and things like that from government agencies like the US Agency for International Development called USCID and the US Department of Labor. And we were working on things like getting kids out of mining, getting like young eight-year-olds, working with their mothers, helping the mothers strengthen their household economics and figure out if they wanted to be in mining too, if they did, how to make that work for them families, but then get the kids back in school so that they could have the future that they want. And then working with teachers to keep the kids in school. And if principals, I just desperately wanted the kids and girls especially to stay in school and not get married at 10 years old because they had to. So you might people might be aware that the Trump administration has been canceling billions of dollars of foreign aid, and that might seem like a far-off thing for people, but it directly affects the jewelry sector because it affects the work that I do and the work that affects your supply chains. And so the work that I was doing was working with gold mining communities on uh child labor issues, what it which literally affects almost everyone's supply chain. You don't want sexually exploited girls in your supply chain, do you?

unknown 51:28

No.

Cristina Villegas 51:28

No. You don't want child trafficking anywhere near your supply chain, do you? So that's what I was working on. That's what the US government was, you know, in previous the previous administration had recognized what was happening and you know had sent their own researchers, researchers out. Then I did my, then I was, I PAC sent me out, documented it independently, identified extra issues, and then we competitively won the award because of the additional research. We're working with local organizations that had an amazing track record on this and lifting them up to to do this work with us because we also have an amazing track record on this, and that was canceled, and so and the rug pulled off from underneath us. So yeah, there's a series of we've had several layoffs, and yeah, it finally happened to be this week. So but I will be just fine because word has gotten out and I've had lots of people come to me actually within a day, uh wanting to uh ask get my paid advice for lots of different things. So um that's been great. I'll be all be just fine.

Corkie Bolton 52:41

Yeah, tell us about your website.

Cristina Villegas 52:42

Yeah, so thank you. So I have a personal website that's just been random things I've been posting over the years, but I'll be making it sleek and fancy over the next few days. And it's called natureswealth.org. Not nature'swealth.com, that's a supplements company, nature'swealth.org.

Corkie Bolton 53:02

Yeah, we're not endorsing nature'swealth.com. That's right.

Cristina Villegas 53:08

Nature'swealth.org. Yeah, exactly. And natureswealth.org is gonna be an educational place for people interested in responsible sourcing. It also talks about my my consulting practice. If people

How To Be An Ally And Why It Matters

Cristina Villegas 53:21

like larger companies want to kind of hire me to sort out their supply chains and get in-depth advice on how to navigate certain issues, or if you know, foundations and others uh want to work on you know modern slavery issues and women's economic empowerment.

Corkie Bolton 53:39

I so appreciate our conversation today, Christina. I there's so many things I personally took away that I'm gonna do better, and I'm excited. This has really got me amped up to like what can we do next, work together, educate more people. So I'm pumped about that. You can find and follow, and you should Christina at Christina Rocks, and that's a Christina spelled C-R-I-S-T-I-N-A dot rocks, R-O-C-K-S. And I don't know if it's because it's like rocks and minerals or just make you rock. Because you rock. You know what I'm saying? Both. So amazing. And definitely head over to natureswealth.org and we're gonna list for our listeners a lot of these places that you can buy from and feel great about. So thank you, Christina. Appreciate you and this conversation.

Cristina Villegas 54:29

It's a pleasure. Thank you so much, Corkie.

Corkie Bolton 54:32

Thank you so much for listening to today's conversation all about responsible sourcing materials for jewelry making. I hope that you found the episode with Christina insightful and empowering as you navigate your own sourcing choices in your studio. If you're ready to explore certified recycled metals, be sure to check the show notes. I've included some trusted sources to help you get started. If you're enjoying the podcast, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a jeweler friend. And if you'd like to support the show, you can head over to patreon.com slash metalsmithsociety. Every bit of support helps me in bringing you these conversations. Plus, you'll get a little bit of a bonus conversation between Christina and I. For more jewelry-making resources, tutorials, and tips, follow our community on Instagram at MetalsMithSociety, and you can visit MetalsmithSociety.com where you can find merch, blog articles, and even a directory on where to find a local jewelry making class. Keep learning, keep experimenting, and keep making choices that align with your values. Until next time.